Links and Resources

 

 

106 thoughts on “Links and Resources

  1. Hilary Searing

    You are welcome to have a link to my Barefoot Social Worker website (above). My articles on child protection recognise the dysfunctional nature of the system and are aimed at encouraging constructive debate on how to improve social work practice.

    Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        Do you mean section 20 of the Children Act 1989? section 25 is about secure accommodation. If the children are accommodated under section 20 you retain parental responsibility and you can remove them at any time. But the local authority will probably take the matter to court on an urgent basis if you do this and they think the children are at risk. But if they take it to court, they will have to make an application for a care order or an emergency protection order which means you will get automatic legal aid.

        Reply
      2. Claire Hughes

        Very briefly. My 12 year old son,diagnosed with autism(although described as “mild” in last ten days & never before has that term been used in last 23 months)& in foster. S.S.& local authorities took me to court to over rule my PR in the matter of my son to receive school vaccinations against my wishes. The judge stated my son gillick competent & he has received 1st set next one’s due on Monday 16th. All school reports since primary state my boy has difficulties learning and needs additional help. I did have the support from Axia/Asd (Chester)from two employees, one being a founder of the organisation and both very professional as a clinical psychologist, but unfortunately they withdrew their support when I was informed that the social services taking me to court. I have 2 letters received from Axia dated sept/oct 2016. Is there anything I could do to stop or delay these vaccines.
        Yours Sincerely
        Clarke Hughes

        Reply
        1. looked_after_child

          You are correct there is no such thing as mild autism. (heart sinks that anyone is still using terms like this..)
          If your son is autistic then his competency will be ‘spikey’ so it is important that he was given child appropriate information about health treatments that met his particular communication needs before giving his consent because obviously it should be an informed choice to be valid.
          For me ( and you know your situation best, not me) this would not be a battle worth fighting. Better to look at what needs to happen before he can come home and work on this.

          Reply
    1. Zoe

      After years of being under social services after fleeing domestic abuse my children were finally off the redgester every rule was followed. Whilst myself and my children were not present at the family address a known person to the family entered the home and attacked a friend of mine whilst he slept, when he awoke he initially thought it was me who had attacked him as he was in my address, after some time in a cell it was NFA and it was discovered to not be me! A child Protection meeting was called 2 weeks later and in the meeting my children were put back on the register under neglect! Using the excuse of absence from school and 2 of my kids had looked grubby! They also delved deeply into historical information that had been known in the 2 previous marac meetings that had been held in the past! Both the attacker and the person who was attacked were also in prison at the time of the cpp meeting! So any risk of the children being of harm was also not present from them! Is this right that they can do this? Can they really use an event where myself and my children were not present? And one of my children’s attendances at school? Baring in mind my other child has a 97% attendance, as they couldn’t use her attendance as a reason they said she smelled!! Shocking!! I really need help with this as yes some of the historical events were shocking they were historical and had already been known prior to this event!

      Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        So do I understand correctly? someone came into your house and attacked a friend of yours who was sleeping there, the friend accused you of assaulting him and now both the friend and the attacker are in prison?
        Just who are you letting into the house where your children sleep?
        This sounds deeply worrying to me and I think anyone reasonable would be worried about your children.

        Reply
        1. Zoe

          My friend is in prison because he committed an offence last year he suffers with mental health problems and had a break down he is stable now and serving time for a mistake he made where only himself was harmed.

          Reply
          1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            While I hope I can be compassionate towards people who get stuck in criminal justice system via unsupported mental health difficulties, you surely must see why the vast majority of people would be worried for your children if these are the kinds of people invited into their house? There is surely a serious risk the children will end up seeing or hearing some really frightening things or even worse, getting caught up in physical fights between adults.

          2. Angelo Granda

            Zoe, I understand neither you or your children were in the house at the time of the criminal violence which was committed by a criminal against your friend. I doubt whether you were in a position to anticipate it or prevent it as you were not there.
            You surely must see that the reason why the SW ‘s were concerned is that the Police referred your children to them when you were arrested. Now you are absolved from any wrongdoing ,however, they have little to worry about and no real case so they are forced to dig up past concerns and develop new ones if they wish to satisfy threshold and get you into the Family Court . They will carry out a witch-hunt. Be warned , they can make whatever allegations they want with which to arouse fears and gain an ICO. It matters little to them or the Court if you prove them false. The hearings aren’t in an open court and aren’t fair ones for several other reasons .
            My advice to you ,as one parent to another, is that when they make false claims without foundation such as the children smell or are grubby , this is known as ‘gaslighting’ and the intention is to deliberately antagonise you and disorient you with illegitimate aims. They want to make you react angrily and shout at them and it is because they want to attack your character in court and defame you. It is common practice.Unfortunately,the previous involvement will make it look like there is a long history of concerns too. If you have previous papers , letters etc. you must show them to your solicitors in the event of proceedings.Get yourself an advocate and also contact the FRG website for help.

          3. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            Did you read the same comment I did? There are really serious concerns here about unsafe adults in the house where the children live. I don’t care if they weren’t there on that particular night. Thank goodness.

          4. Angelo Granda

            Same comment…..different response.

            The first rule of good social work is not to allow ones fears to determine ones response.Zoe found the CPR ,gave us some facts as she sees them and asked for help.

            The duty of the Social Worker is first and foremost to conduct a fair and impartial investigation into the FACTS of each case as and when fears and concerns arise,to be absolutely open and honest when doing so and to report what he or she finds.
            I am always concerned when I hear from Mums like Zoe as I hear of so many vulnerable families treated unfairly ,cases conducted wrongly etc.
            So I merely offer her advice as a fellow parent rather than as a cp professional.
            Zoe,if you are still with us,the LA must follow guidelines and frameworks of the Children Act scrupulously.Sometimes they forget to do so and children are placed on the child-protection register at risk of neglect out of all proportion to the FACTS.
            Please supply answers to a few questions honestly.
            1.Did the SW inform you of your right to have an advocate or a friend attend meetings with you in order to offer support and to help mediate?Did he or she attempt to help you contact one and give you local details,tel.No’s?
            2.Was the SW open and honest from the start? Did he or she explain exactly what the concerns were,what information they had been given by the Police and were you shown a copy of any official child-in-need referral? Were your agreements and/or disagreements considered and were they taken down on paper,recorded correctly and signed by you?
            3.The child-protection conference.Were you fully informed of it at least 48 hours beforehand? Were you told specifically which professionals involved with your children had been asked to attend and were you able to ensure that your views,account of the FACTS, agreements and disagreements etc were circulated amongst them all in good time before the meeting?
            4.Was the conference quorate? By that,Zoe,I mean did any of the professionals involved with your children attend; they are supposed to? For example,if a SW alleges children are in a state of neglect or at risk of neglect,according to correct procedure,there must be contemporaneous supporting medical evidence of it from a child’s GP or health visitor.Did either of those professionals attend? Did someone from school attend to give evidence particularly the school child-protection representative to confirm attendance records and so on?
            Usually,were either the GP or school to have child-protection concerns ,they would already have followed procedure and discussed them with you anyway long before.
            5.Was the Police representative there to inform the meeting of the fully investigated FACTS and to explain that you were in FACT cleared of blame and that neither you or the children were actually present at the time and that the allegation was made by someone who is mentally ill

            6.Were the professionals open and honest with you? Were the ‘concerns’ fully examined and was it fully explained to you what was required of you, how you were expected to change etc. Or was the decision to place your children on the register steam-rollered through by the SW without you or the others being heard? Was it merely a rubber-stamp exercise?

            My advice to Zoe is that if the guidelines were flouted in anyway,then the decision to place her children on the at-risk register was UNLAWFUL.
            For a full list of correct procedure,Zoe,consult the FRG ,a link to them can be found on this resource and for better advice than I can give and mediation ,get a free advocate.
            Finally,don’t fall into the trap of losing it.That is what they want you to do,sometimes.Keep cool,calm and collected with them.

          5. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            I find your response odd. You aren’t helping this mother or these children by glossing over that something very seriously wrong was allowed to unfold in the house where the children live. Whether they were there or not at the time is pretty much irrelevant. It was their home. they are entitled to feel safe in it. I appreciate this friend had mental health difficulties so its not his ‘fault’ but nevertheless he accused Zoe of assaulting him! Now both the victim and the perpetrator are in prison? Zoe needs to understand what went so horribly wrong here and show that she can take steps to keep her children safe. She can use her energies on holding the LA firm to every procedural nicety in the book if she wishes. But my very firm view is that this would be a serious misdirection of her energy.

          6. Angelo Granda

            There is always a possibility that one parent might misdirect another ,Sarah,and whilst I accept your own firm view, may I point out I am not a professional as you are which is why I pointed Zoe in the direction of independent professional advocacy and mediation . Had the SW done so in the first place as per frameworks perhaps she would not have come here for help.
            However,thanks for your different view.

          7. Angelo Granda

            Actually,your comment is intriguing.There is so much wrong with the system and I think we should look much more critically at procedural safeguards,the freedom with which Local Authorities abuse them and even more critically at the disrespect towards them shown by lawyers.
            To simplify matters,let us take it in short stages.Please can you answer this question ,Sarah.
            How do you think Zoe’s energies would be better directed?

          8. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            In examining the natures and the propensities of those she allows into the home where her children live.
            For starters.

          9. Angelo Granda

            Quite, Sarah , absolutely spot on. Under the terms of the Children Act, parents have a duty to protect their children to the best of their ability and it is important their home is a safe place for them. ( As far as the criminal offender is concerned, on the occasion described the Police actually did their job and any threat from that quarter was removed thankfully). However, Mum should consider future harm too, of course . She should concentrate her energies in working with the SW’s under the auspices of the Act and examining the natures and propensities of ,for example , who she allows in her home in future. She has to put her children even before her friend. She should co-operate fully with a positive ( not negative), fair and above all impartial investigation and , if necessary accept support. Obviously , the SW involved should not ignore the Working Together frameworks, ignore the incident of violence and adopt a bullying attitude as has happened here. To re-register the child as ‘neglected’ just because it is claimed one smells and that the other is ‘grubby’ shows no appreciation of human beings ,children or adults and no understanding of schoolchildren.
            A grubby schoolboy does not point to parental neglect at all . Sw’s must carry out impartial investigations and come to realistic appraisals. The process is laid down for them and it isn’t rocket science even for the most stupid SW.
            So, my next question , what can parents do should the SW’s refuse to work with them fairly following the law, won’t examine the facts and concerns properly, and concentrates on making cloud-cuckoo land assertions?

          10. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            A child who goes to the school at the start of the school day, grubby and unwashed is a very clear indicator of a neglected child.
            A child who ends the school day grubby has probably had a good day.

          11. Angelo Granda

            Thanks,Sarah,for your continued patience with comments and criticisms.
            I find your last remark iniquitous.The phrase ‘ clear indicator of a neglected child’ is a good example of the officious, bureaucratic language used by LA legals to disguise mere speculation as fact with the intent of misleading decision-makers.
            Facts lead to well-informed appraisals not guesswork.For example,is there constant hot water and a regular supply of soap at home? If a boy jumps out of bed and gives himself a ‘ catlick’ that is not neglect,is it? If he plays footie and climbs a tree on route to school,what is that? What if he doesn’t use his coathangers and brushes?

          12. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            Ok let me restate
            A child who often comes to school unwashed, dirty and smelly IS A NEGLECTED CHILD
            There is no room for debate about that.
            Washing your child and his clothes is BASIC PARENTING
            to fail to do this on a regular basis, and to send your child to school dirty is NEGLECT
            If it goes on for a long time and is coupled with other things it is a pretty likely indicator of SIGNIFICANT HARM

          13. Angelo Granda

            Thanks for reconsidering it.It is so easy for an sw lacking integrity to say a child smells or is grubby ,Sarah.Please bear that in mind .It is also almost impossible refute at a meeting without an experienced advocate ( as per guidelines) to mediate with professionals.Parents will feel insulted and have their hackles raised,mutual antagonism is likely to develop between parties etc.
            Sw’s have to be fair and impartial.This one cannot have enquired with school whether it was a regular occurrence.It wasn’t an issue or the school head would have contacted Mum about it long before.
            There is little doubt in my mind,some Sw’s are not fair and impartial.
            Please remember how to prove it in Court.If not one thing in Mum’s favour is reported not one,then assessments are not fair ones.
            Well,it looks like Zoe has left the scene.Please note,Sarah,that her case may not mean proceedings,the children have merely been placed on the register for now.Lawyers won’t be involved but it is still interference in family life and families placed on lengthy cin plans are the recipients of great distress as a result.It is also emotionally harmful to a child to be interviewed at school without his parents by an sw.He will be stigmatised by schoolfellows that is a fact!

          14. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            Ok. so don’t rely on the social worker. Ask the teacher. That’s where this information usually comes from.

          15. Angelo Granda

            BTW, I may be old-fashioned but my mother never used to wash us when we were at school.We were taught to bathe ourselves!
            She did wash our uniforms ,of course,but we never had a clean one on everyday.
            I don’t know what happens nowadays.
            I remember one boy who used to be dropped off at exactly five to nine every morning by his Mum (perhaps a middle-class professional ).He was always perfectly dressed,hair combed meticulously,spotless etc.Needless to say,he was castigated and called a sissy by all his classmates.Ces LA vie!!!¿/

          16. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            I would expect any primary school child to turn up at school with clean clothes and clean skin.
            I would not expect any primary school child to be left to be entirely responsible for washing their own clothes and skin.
            Of course the degree of parental intervention should diminish the older a child gets.
            however a 5 year old I would assume needs a high level of intervention. A 10 year old less, but still some.

          17. Angelo Granda

            So,back to my question
            What to do if an sw refuses to follow frameworks and guidelines,refuses to be open and candid,will not examine issues properly and listen to all accounts,makes no attempt to establish facts and concentrates on making cloud-cuckoo land assertions?

            Before you reply,my view is that such failures are profoundly unethical and should any lawyer pass by on the other side and ignore them,then it is profoundly in just.Procedural safeguards are not just ‘legal niceties’ which can be ridden roughshod over freely by LA’s.Or decisions cannot be proportionate and appraisals cannot be well-informed.
            To avoid massive miscarriages of justice,correct process should be enforced by the Court.

      2. Aaron

        Hi I been in a domestic violence and drugs Relationship with two kids and my partner my son is three months old my daughters need to read the message from client was against my partner due to the substitutes of drugs also neglecting of the kids money how do you earn any money but the kids will always been fed as we always had bit of money me and my partner use to be on drugs as she use to shout at me andh E same with myself I just doing all my drug programs from CGL LIFE LINE ALSO MY DOCTORS AND domestic violence programs I been gaven good news I can rebuild the relationship threw the social services

        Reply
    2. Sarah Lowe

      I am desperate for someone, anyone who can help me. Basically to cut a very long story short. I am being targeted and destroyed deliberately by my husband and his mother for the end result for me to become very unwell, or commit suicide or end up sectioned or on the streets. Reasons unclear but I have ideas to what they are. It is not the first time they have done this .
      I was a nurse clinical lead in dementia unit earning alot of money doing my dream job. Good future ahead. We had ups and downs and my husband went to prison for killing his brother came out at beginning of the year. I knew it wasnt going to be easy him adjusting but i loved him and believed in him. The ultimate goal was for us as a family to move areas, fresh start where no one knew about our past.. My hopes and dreams of achieving that goal was less than a year a way. Over night gone by my husband up and leaving to go to hospital claiming a break down told me my marriage was over and i make him ill. I had to come out of work not knowing what to do. I was distraught. Communication cut off by the family. I was emotionally broken, three children not knowing what is going on. Thats when I felt isolated, smear campaign. Social services ringing me asking was i going to harm my children. Financial provisions cut off. Council told no one was living in the house when we were there. Support networks gone other than controlling ones. I was a mess, i tried my best. Then my husband came home. Now i realise it was to further my distress. He broke me that much and my reality distorted I was suicidal and begging for help. He left and then snuck in the house and took the children. Then locked me in the house. I was in hospital and when I came out I was very well. The sw who said before I went to hospital we will have family meeting, the concern at that point was both our emotional health. New year came and then I was a abuser drug addict made the children lie and I was the pepetraitor of domestic violence. I havent seen my eldest since dec 16th 2017. I see my two others once a week. The sw off sick since he did cf assessment and supported a non mol and prohibits steps order against me. Since then the lies have continued. We have had two local authorities 2 sw from and three from another. They keep disappearing. No child protection conference no multi agency working. They are subject to interim care orders by the judge who has also disappeared. and are living with my husband and his mother. No facts established. No involvement of my account. No invites to meetings etc. On 2nd guardian and they are saying im delusional however every thing i predicted would happen has. Emotional health is poor again because i havent seen my eldest who i spoke to on xmas day saying i will see you next week. 9 months later im still waiting with she is not ready.

      Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        Where is your lawyer? What happened in the care proceedings? Did you have a lawyer? How were the interim care orders made? Did you challenge the evidence?

        I am really sorry to hear that this is your story – it sounds very frightening and dis-orientating. But no one is going to be able to give you any legal help on line, but I hope you will find some people who can offer emotional support. on any analysis you have undergone a very traumatic and difficult experience.

        To get any proper help with your situation you will need a lawyer you can trust and work with. If there have been care proceedings then you qualify for non means and non merits tested legal aid. I don’t understand why your narrative simply reads as a stream of things done to you – you should have been given the opportunity to challenge allegations you didn’t accept.

        In the meantime, what support are you getting with your mental health. ‘Delusional’ is quite a strong accusation for a guardian to make and I would like to know the evidential basis for that. If you are seeing mental health professionals then I would advise that you work with them and get as much help and support as you can.

        Reply
      2. sam

        The problem is it all sounds so far fetched, that you will be labelled as mentally ill whether you are or not. I can believe that it happened though, professionals do not always under narcissists and you are not the only woman telling a similar story. Many children, including mine continue to be harmed by being placed with abusive men and paternal families. I did not have legal help for a considerable number of weeks in my proceedings due to a legal aid administrative problem. I have actually asked the LA for a serious case review , it was refused and in recent weeks my youngest has once again been assaulted in the home. It is nothing so ever about child protection it is about LA reputation protection.

        Reply
      3. Sam

        From the NSPCC criteria for a serious case review. I wonder how many looked after children, particually those shunted from placement to placement qualify?
        What is seriously harmed and how is it determined
        Seriously harmed includes, but is not limited to, cases where the child has sustained, as a result of abuse or neglect, any or all of the following:

        a potentially life-threatening injury;
        serious and/or likely long-term impairment of physical or mental health or physical, intellectual, emotional, social or behavioural development.
        This definition is not exhaustive. LSCBs should use available research evidence when considering whether serious harm has occurred. (Department for Education, 2018).

        Reply
        1. Sam

          Does anyone know the test whether the criteria to establish harm caused to a child for a serious case review ? Is it on the balance of probabilities just as it is for care cases? I know they are normally held when a child dies , but it appears to be when a child suffers from long lasting harm as well.

          Reply
    3. Carla

      Hi looking for advice. My ex partner is not named on my daughters birth certificate can I stop him seeing her. There are other reasons I don’t want him to see her to. Thanks

      Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        If your ex partner is the father of this child then he and she will have Article 8 ECHR rights to a relationship which the law in England and Wales will enforce. If you don’t think it is in your child’s best interests to see her father then you will need to provide evidence of this, if the matter ends up in a court. You will need to see a lawyer and get some proper advice based on the circumstances of your case.

        Reply
  2. phillimoresarah Post author

    Thanks Hilary, would you mind if I linked your article about being a Children’s Social worker on our Social Work page?

    Reply
    1. Tj

      Im sorry to say . You are incredibly trying to insult people on here’s intelligence …. [Redacted. If you can make your point without being personally abusive, I am happy to publish it. If you can’t, I won’t]

      Reply
    2. Jordan Sims

      I need help I have a son that’s 1 year old and I’m 16 and my mom doesn’t want me and I can’t help my son so I don’t know wat to do someone call me [REDACTED]

      Reply
      1. looked_after_child

        Hello Jordan
        This sounds incredibly stressful. Are you sure your Mum dos’ent want you? Having a new baby in the house changes everything but it may settle down again. Have you thought about what you want for your child – for them? What is your relationship like with your child’s father? Do you have a SW?
        It is not wise to put your phone number onto the internet as sometimes there are people on the net who prey on other people in distress. It is better to contact a few organisations and talk to people o their helplines if you can. The Family Rights Group is a good place to start.
        Being a parent is a big responsibility and hopefully you will get good support.

        Reply
    1. Debbie

      Hi there, the link u suggested no longer exists? Do you no its new links regarding help I desperatly need. Social services have my daughter into care 23rd DEC 2017. They have fucked me over big time. They are lieing child kidnapping basterds! They have lie to me,lied against us in court case reports withholding information in reports they failed code law conduct vital info towards case history they failed us. Using attachment theory phycology Brain washed our daughter to witch she was hearing voices then used it against us.saying they are results of emotional stress cause by neglect towards her needs and wellbeing. Its all so fucked up. EVIL

      Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        If there are care proceedings you will get access to a lawyer for free. I suggest you urgently take that up. If its section 20 accommodation and you don’t agree with it – tell the LA and tell them to issue care proceedings then you will get access to a lawyer.

        Reply
  3. Sarah Phillimore

    Thanks – that looks interesting, would be good to link it to posts about getting help. This is perennial problem in care proceedings – all agree parent would benefit from some kind of therapy but no one will pay for it.

    Reply
  4. Debbie

    My 3 Childern as Be Adpoton & Social Serivces take them away from me
    I frigth Children Social Serivces At Court be their Win the Case I was so upset & Crying I miss my Kid’s so much. So Children Social Serivces say to me I Can’t see My Children no more Because Their say to I got a Learning Disabitiles & said I can’t look after Myself .Be I can Because I was not Dignoie with a learning Disabitlies bye no Doctors or Never Been to Hospiceal for people with learning Disabitlies, So I just want my 3Kids Back with me I just need Some Help.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      I am really sorry that you are so unhappy. Is there anyone you can talk to in real life? You have gone through a horrible experience and you need someone you can talk to. I am afraid I can’t give you any help here – I don’t know what’s happened in your case or the reason your children were taken away. Can the LA offer you any support? Could you try the Family Rights Group?http://www.frg.org.uk/need-help-or-advice

      Reply
      1. Angelo Granda

        Other parents can read between the lines of your message , Debbie. I can see that you are another victim of a horrible,inhumane system . You have been left behind in a hole and hung out to dry!
        Debby, please answer these easy questions for me ,if you can?
        Did the Social Worker tell you where to go to get an advisor to help and support you ( an advocate) before they took your children?
        Has anyone been to see you now court is all over or are you left on your own?
        Are you still going to see your children every week ?

        Reply
  5. Angry mum

    I need help. In care proceedings. L.a want removal to care with f.c.o and placement order.
    The l.a have updated the threshold. My barrister says we do not agree and is now helping the l.a to tweak it so that we do agree the threshold is past.
    Is my barrister allowed to do this?
    3 day final contested hearing THIS WEEK COMING 26/27/28 September 2016.
    Please advise

    Reply
  6. Angelo Granda

    As a parent, the only help i can give you is that you engage with your lawyers as you have done and follow their advice. Also google The Family Rights Group and they will advise you and put you in contact with other help organisations..They have a telephone helpline and they can provide positive case assistance.
    Also ,if the CS have conducted your case correctly,they will have advised you of your right to an independent advocate who ,axxording to statute,is able to attend meetings with you,intervene and support you agaixt the LA.
    Get an advocate and he will explain concerns to you.If you disagree with any, your views must be circulated amongst other professionals .If they aren’t ,they are bound to make misinformed appraisals as a result.They have to be aware of both sides.

    This site does not normally advise on specific cases , it is set up as a general discussion forum.
    I am not trained or a solicitor etc. I am an ordinary parent. My general impression is that parents who contest threshhold criteria are considered uncooperative and unable to work with the CS.So a fco can be issued on those grounds.Parents who agree the threshhold will be deemed to have admitted causing neglect, risk of future significant harm etc and the fco will be issued anyway. They can’t win on threshhold which are very low and the LA evidence won’t be examined rigidly anyway.
    The vital issue is the CARE PLAN and placement orders cannot be issued unless all less serious alternatives have been considered. Often the CS forget that duty.Family Support can solve all but the most dire cases.
    Hope this helps.For specific case advice, contact the FRG.

    Reply
  7. Veronica Edwards

    My story on scandals with authorities to steal my child and gave to a men that isn’t her father. There are serious frauds going on within Police social services and school. To stealing peoplespecially children.

    Reply
  8. Joanne Kennedy

    Hi everyone i am posting desperate. I am mum to two very beautiful little boys. I have very long history of mental illness. Was also diagnosed with personality disorder but have worked so hard to understand myself, my emotions, reactions,responses and triggers that hsve been deemed to have a history of, rather thsn currently suffering from a personality disorder. I try so hard to be the best mum i can be for my little boys but also battle against a myriad of physical illnesses inc fibromyalgia and arthritis. The childrens social worker and their father agrees that when i am unwell i am still a good mum, and when well i am a fantastic mum. Thing is they lack stability and consistency…this has been evident for last six years. Their dad, although he loves them lscks the ability to offer them most of the basic aspects of care. The house is a slum . The boys dont even understand basic hygiene ( i went out with them today and they were dirty, filthy. With tide marks uo their arms and even between their fingers. I was distraught, though more embarrased for them. Al he has to do is get them to wash their hands and face…but no, way too difficult. So frustrated between his inability or desire to offer them basic care. ..love doesn’t cut it, and my illness preventing me from giving the best if care on a regular basis i asked that the social worker look to placing my sons in long term foster care…though allowing them to come home weekends. But truth is i am broken, i dont want to have my boys placed. I want help . I want to be supported at a level whereby i still get to be the best mum i can possibly be to my beautiful boys every day, every night. I have w.orked si hard to be where i am today. Our sons love us so very much, as does myself snd thrir dad. Please,please help. How do we help our boys remain at home, how do i continue to be their mum, kiss them goodnight, hear them giggle in the morning and ruffle their hair when they come home from school telling their stories. ..and still be the one to tuck them up tight in bed when i have asked thst they be placed somwhere “more stable”. I want the chance to be their stable, to continue loving them and being their mum. Why am i not supported to do this. Why is it that it seems thst the way to make things better for them is for them tl go somewhere else. Ask my sons and without hesitation they will tell you they want to be with mammy and daddy. Please, please help me. Tell me where i can go to get the help and support to make thst possible for them…and for me. I don’t want to be their part time mum. Desperate and heartbroken ????

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      Have you asked your LA to make an assessment of your needs under the Care Act 2014 ?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Care_Act_2014
      You ought to be supported to care for your children, rather than having to give them up to foster care, which would itself be very expensive.
      But their dad also needs to step up. Why can’t he wash their hands? How does he ‘lack the ability’ to provide basic care? Does he have mental health/learning difficulties?
      You need someone to look at your family as a whole and see its strengths and weaknessness and see what can be done.
      Sometimes the gap is too wide to be filled.
      But sometimes it isn’t.
      I would make it very clear to the SW that I would like some kind of plan about how your family can be helped and supported.
      BUT if their are adult members who simply aren’t pulling their weight for no good reason – that is going to make a difficult situation even worse.

      Reply
  9. Angelo Granda

    Can anyone give me a link to Sam’s blog please?
    Sarah, regarding this resource, how often do you read the e-mails and reply to them?
    Sorry to trouble you.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      Sorry, I have had a very busy couple of months so haven’t been checking emails as regularly but I try to check at least every couple of days. But sometimes I have only checked once a week.

      Reply
  10. Kirsty

    My ex has had new girlfriend sleep over same bed as children 2 and 8 asked my child lie to me narcasite and jekle Hyde with me try blame me calling me all names to kids what rights have I over him have stranger sleep over in bed and also drinking and drugs while have kids over? We have no set times weekend he rings I get kids ready? ?

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      If you don’t think the children will be safe overnight then don’t let them stay over. They can visit during the day and come home to you if they don’t have their own bed or adults are drinking and doing drugs around them. Its often better for children to have some kind of routine and predictability so fixed times would be good, on every other weekend to give you some time with them at weekends. If he won’t agree you can try mediation or he can make application to court but if what you say is true I think it would be seen as perfectly reasonable to stop overnight stays in those circumstances.

      Reply
  11. Angelo Granda

    Sarah,Forgive me if I’m mistaken but something appears to have gone wrong at the top of this webpage.
    Isn’t there supposed to be a list of links and resources e.g. FRG, Samaritans,Citizens advice,Barbados etc.?

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      half the links have disappeared from the menu which is annoying. I have tried to put them back but it didn’t work. The content is still there but you would have to search in search box.

      Reply
  12. Mummy has Narcolepsy

    Child protection meetings are a joke. There is a massive lack of so called professionals gathering the correct information regarding a child in need or at risk , that in combination , adds to the child services rights to remove a child for what they think is correct. Regardless to what the law states , and any procedures that are put in place to protect vulnerable adults with disabilities and ill health.
    Friends and family support, apparently the people you are to identify also have to attend these meetings, that are not only humiliating and degrading and in my experience let’s all jump on the bad mother wagon to see how far we can push her over the edge.
    Why would I want my neighbours to be forced in to these meetings when I am presented as a struggling mother? Yes I’m struggling and that’s why I asked for social care assistance.
    As a single disabled mother of 39 , I expected what was promised. Social services help for my day to day needs that includes my parental responsibility.
    Instead I was chritasized for not being able to walk my daughter to school and on days when I couldn’t walk , my daughter was later by 10 mins. But before school registration had closed.
    I was given no help, my disabilities were ignored and my daughter was removed from my care at age 7.
    Justice? No. There is nothing right in the system. Social workers are just a bunch of lying bastards.
    If you complain , it makes it worse and then your made a target , set up to fail.
    My daughter was well looked after by me. I devoted my whole life to looking after her .
    I own my own house. I’ve had my own business, I’ve worked as a district nurse.
    This is not how I thought my life would end.
    I see my daughter, supervised every 2 months for 1 hour.
    Neglected her educational needs. There was also a child at the school who had worse attendance , my daughter was late on days due to me not being able to walk. But this is put down as an unauthorized absence. !!! She was there everyday. 5-10 mins late but never before registration had closed.
    I didn’t have mental health issues before. I have now tho. The bullying , the lies and deceit at the hands of the so called professionals.
    Outrageous.
    I am a mentor at MIND, my expertise is with people feeling like they want to kill themselves.
    I no how they are feeling.
    Doesn’t stop me from not wanting to, I have to carry on , in pain and devistated more than anyone could ever no, because I love my daughter. She is my everything.
    Something has to be done. Is not right.

    Reply
  13. Bridget stewart

    Hello, I am a single mother fighting against social workers recommendation for my son not to be placed back into my care. The reason he was placed in the care of a family member (march 2018) was due to a violence towards me from my previous partner. Although I am separated from him , my living arrangements are holding me back from gaining custody rights back to my son. I was evicted from a scattered flat and subsequently ended up banned from any tempoetry housing. Although I am on the housing register, I have been told to expect a wait of a year and a half which is time I do not have. As I am 31, private renting is also noy applicable to me as am only entitled to £59 p/wk. For now I am renting a single room in a shared house, my only over option is hostel accommodation. If I had a suitable house, I could fight this all the way and could get my son back with me where he belongs. Please call me if u think u can help with any advice at all 07724871912, thanks for reading

    Reply
  14. Father wanting kids back

    Hi wanted to ask a question I am a father to two boys and my children were taking into care and are in care at the moment they are 2 and 4. The mother of my childs was extremely drunk and the neighbor called police and the police took them away. My children have been in care 4 days and running. Due to the grounds of the house she lives in was dirty and they think she’s has a drink problem and concerns of her partner. As I went down to a social building to have a meeting with them as soon as I found out the next day it had happened from her mum they told me that was the concerns . I had a brief chat with them around an hour and they spoke to my mum and dad they asked us general questions that you can imagine what they would ask basic questions and spoke about what happened etc etc. They then said that they would come and do an assessment of my house which she did I live with my mum and dad and my house is fine. And that she would be doing checks etc. This is my first time involved in anything like this so trying to explain best I can. I have got a lawyer involved but the social lady text me saying that I have to go to court and that they are trying to get a order where they come and live with me and my mum and dad at my house I really want my kids back as this and there concerns are due to the mother. Advice needed ASAP on what will happen at the court hearing and will I get my kids back. My lawyer did say that the mother did sign a section 20 think that what it is called don’t know what that means I never did or even had one put to me. The social said they can not go back to the mother and said that the order they are trying to get is to place them with me how much of a guarantee is this that I will 100% get my kids back. This is killing me so much have not slept at all in 4 days are my kids safe in care I’m so worried about them. Advice needed as do not know my rights etc also I have not signed anything or not received any paper work is this normal practice really don’t know.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      Try not to panic, I know its easy for me to say but its only been 4 days – I know this is a long time for you and the children but its a relatively short time in court proceedings. From what you say, the LA have started care proceedings as you have a lawyer? Even if their mum agreed for them to go into foster care by signing a section 20 agreement, there is no way children should be in state care if they have a parent who is willing and able to look after them. However, the social workers have to check that your home is safe and suitable and it sounds like that assessment has already happened. So hopefully you will be back in court very soon and the children can come home to you. No one can given you 100% guarantee of anything I am afraid but please do speak to your lawyer and get reassurance. From what you have said it sounds positive for the children living with you.

      Reply
      1. Father wanting kids back

        Thanks for your reply I was told by the mothers mum of my children that she has said to them that she wants the children to go to me etc and not in care they said I’m in court on Tuesday. Yeah they have started proceedings and I do have a lawyer. And my home is very safe and suitable and the assessment has already taken place. Also I’m very nevous about court as don’t know what to expect? Also they obviously have to do checks how long do these take? Or is the assessment they did at my home the main thing. Also if they say yes at court will I get them back straight away that day. This really is killing me I miss my kids so much I hope they are safe where they are as they are with complete strangers which breaks my heart are the people they are with are they safe people the house I know nothing so worried. Also when the mother was arrested no effort to contact me was ever made or anything after arrest why do they put them straight into care like that how can they just like that? Thanks for your reply once again I’m just missing my kids so much and worried about them. My lawyer has said she will see me on the court date and cannot see me before as there is no need to and she will email the paperwork of the case which I have not received as of yet. Fingers crossed and I pray I get my kids back home and safe where they should be.

        Reply
  15. Angelo Granda

    Father wanting kids back, I am an ordinary parent and whilst i can offer no other advice than already given by Sarah, i hope you don’t mind if i try and open up your case for discussion.

    1. Often these child-protection proceedings go very wrong right at the start because the public officials involved fail to follow correct procedures and exceed their powers.
    2. It was the duty of the Police to investigate the allegation of drunkenness in charge of the children and ascertain whether the Mum was ,in fact, drunk and incapable of caring for them. When they arrived ,if Mum appeared drunk,blood tests should have been taken and, if positive, she should have been charged and taken before the Magistrates to act proportionately .
    3. The Police have a clear duty under section 46 of the Children Act to place children involved in the care of natural family where possible not to remove them into care.They should have taken the time to establish the whereabouts of both her mother and you and your mother before removing the children into care.They failed to do so thus the children have been traumatised unnecessarily . There is research and it is known that children are traumatised and suffer emotional harm as a result of wrongful removal.
    4.However,the Police did take the children. Their section 46 powers last for a maximum of 72 hours and the Police should have returned the children upon Mum sleeping it off. They should have anticipated the sobering-up process would have not taken long and returned the children home forthwith and i would expect it took less than 24 hours. Thus,again correct procedures were flouted.
    5. Has Mum been charged and taken to Court? If not and if she was drunk in charge of the children, then the Authorities have failed the children. A fine could have taught her a lesson for the future causing her to mend her ways. If she was not charged and punished, it is probable that she was not drunk .The tests must have been negative and Magistrates cannot convict on hearsay evidence alone.If the tests were negative,the Police should have returned the children home forthwith.
    6. The Police are only supposed to remove children under s46 if they are in imminent danger of harm.Someone could have been called to the home to supervise the family whilst Mum sobered up and help clean the house.In other words, family support could have been offered by her Mum or someone else for a few hours.
    7.There is no doubt in my mind that the CS have misused an S20. There was no need for the children to go into care at all. They kids could have gone to you for a start and it was their duty to establish that fact.I feel sure also that after the first 72 hour period ,had they investigated they would have discovered themselves that Mum had sobered-up.
    8.The CS do not have the power to decree that the children cannot go back to Mother. Only a Court can make such an order. When misusing s20’S, as they have done in your case, they may have threatened Mum and not shown her the terms of the agreement.She has a right to rescind her consent and take the children home at any time AS HAVE YOU! Have they explained this to you or are they not being open and candid?
    9. On past form, when the authorities exceed their powers and remove children without a Court Order,they follow it up by doing a witch-hunt on families ,exaggerate issues and there isn’t a lot they will not do to justify their malpractice.
    10. You seem worried about the care the children will receive in care and i am sure you have heard all the recent revelations about institutional sex abuse and neglect etc. Unfortunately, although i would like to reassure you, i am afraid the tales are true. There is a culture of child-abuse in Local Authority care. If you have any reason to suspect it when yo see the children or if they report any offences to you, go with your lawyer to the Police and insist on a thorough investigation. It is your duty to the children apart from your Public duty . Should either your lawyer or the Police try to cover up for the LA , insist on your rights.

    Reply
    1. Father wanting kids back

      Thanks for your reply i really appreciate the time and effort you went to when replying to me I will try give you some more info on matters now. There seems to be some wrongdoing on there part as I don’t know my rights and have never been involved in such a situation before I don’t know the rights and the wrongs and where I stand. The mother was not charged with anything was arrested and let out after she had slept it off I would have thought. The social women said my baby mum did give her mums number upon arrested but it turnt out to be the wrong one for whatever reason weather that was because she was drunk etc I do not know. I did ask the social why i was never contacted she said to me they do not hold such information on records so could not have been contacted. They obviously did not make any reasonable effort what so ever is this normal practise surely not. The reason being is that there has been several incididents of this nature before over the years they had a record of it not any of the incidents are anything to do with me and I was not present at any of them could it be a case of one to many incidents and now they have acted again I don’t know. I am in court tomorrow finally I have a date. The plan as they say is for them to come to me tomorrow they said temporary 8 week period I think she said. She said they need to asses me and my mum and dad and see how we are with them etc not sure what they look out for or anything but that what she said they will need to do. And then it gets reviewed etc etc I don’t know the process of it all and what the name of the hearing tomorrow even is but it’s a fight for my kids it seems like. I do not trust a word they say and don’t know who I should believe. I don’t directly speak my baby mum only to her mum and what her mum said she never signed anything like a section 20 weather she did but did not know it’s another thing. The worry won’t end till there back with me I pray I get my kids back tomorrow. It’s been a lot of Info for me to take in and still don’t understand everything they have said to me. Still no paperwork or anything from social has ever been put to me can’t just take kids like that and have no paperwork or anything from the court saying that they have been taken etc seems very unprofessional on there part.

      Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        Make it clear to the Judge that you are rightly annoyed by their failures to contact you. If it was easy to get your details, they should have.

        If it was a section 20 agreement or police powers then there will NOT be any order from the court as it won’t have been before the court yet. So there isn’t anything suspicious about that but I can appreciate it doesn’t help reassure you.

        Reply
    2. Father wanting kids back

      Forgot to add that from the start the social said court proceedings had already started. They seem that it was straight to a court matter straight away from the off as soon as my children where taken as they said it now a court matter has to go though the court. How can they take the matters straight into court like this from the off? My baby mum has a lawyer and they are dealing with her side of things and that’s all I know on that part. The section 20 she will have to take up with her lawyer as all they said if one parent signs that’s it not both have to that’s all I know of it as I never signed nothing she said i don’t have to only one parent has to and that she already signed one.

      Reply
      1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

        They have to take it to court as that is their job – they have obligations imposed by statute regarding child protection. So they have to take swift action at times and looking back, that might not have been the best thing to do but sometimes they have to act quickly without the full information. yes, I agree both parents ought to agree to a section 20 but sometimes there isn’t time to find both parents and they take the consent of just one. Its not great but it is understandable in some circs. I think you should concentrate now on getting them out of foster care and back with you.

        Reply
        1. Father wanting kids back

          Yeah I fully am concentrating on just that I will report back tomorrow and let you know what has happened. I came across this site by chance so would like to say a big thank you as you have made me feel more at ease with things and have helped me a lot with your reponses to my post. Thanks for taking the time and effort to reply back to my messages as you did not have to go to the lengths you have done I am very grafeful and appreciate it a lot and same goes to the other person who messaged take care everyone.

          Reply
        2. Father wanting kids back

          All went well at court I now have my kids at home safe and sound where they should be they are doing fine. The court hearing was quick was only in there around 15mins and was over they dropped my kids off at my home about 3 hours after the hearing. The process now will continue with the social but this is a vital step in this process and a step in the right direction just glad they are home. Once again a big thankyou to the people that contribute to this site and I am very grateful and this will not be the last time you will hear from me was a blessing coming across this site take care everyone.

          Reply
          1. Angelo Granda

            Father wanting kids back.
            What sort of order was applied for by the Local Authority and was one granted?

            Was there any real evidence such as blood tests that Mum was drunk and incapable or was there only hearsay evidence? Please note if she admitted it on oath in court that was real evidence but if she is alleged to have admitted to it at the time,that is only hearsay evidence.

            Was there any real evidence such as a doctor’s on oath that the children were suffering from any neglect or harm?

            I am glad you have managed to get the kids back with natural family; they should never have been taken but I’m afraid the upset has yet barely started for them and Mum who have been treated shoddily and traumatised.Did your lawyer make a complaint along the lines suggested by Sarah or was the LA malpractice covered-up as is fairly customary?

          2. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            An allegation that the mother admitted something is entirely relevant evidence because the mother can be questioned about it.
            I don’t think you should be encouraging this man to start going down that route – its for the mother to make her case. There were clearly enough concerns to remove the children and they are with their dad now. If the mother isn’t happy with that, she can argue why not.

          3. Angelo Granda

            I would only encourage Father wanting kids back to continue co-operating and working together with his lawyer and Mum’s Mum in the welfare interests of his children. Thank God the children are now out of danger and back with natural family.
            Sarah ,please forgive me if this irritates you ;it is quite by chance that this father’s case coincided with our discussion on the HEARSAY EVIDENCE thread which i would suggest he reads if he has the time.
            In my opinion, lawyers seriously underestimate how hearsay allegations poison cases and send them into the realms of cloud-cuckoo land from the very earliest stage of an inquiry. Don’t they realise how easy it is for a resentful or malicious person to make false allegations deliberately. Very often neighbours are in dispute with one another and an evil one will know exactly how to get revenge on a family by reporting them to the Police or social services. Hearsay evidence must be treated at all times with great caution.
            Not only does common sense tell us that but so does the law.Procedures must be followed and procedure dictates that before treating this Mum as guilty , all reasonable investigations should have been made to establish the credibility of the allegations . In any case of alleged drunkenness whilst caring for children, the only real way of proving it woiuld be by testing the blood alcohol levels of the accused. It would be the same with drugs. I know of a case where a Mum was accused by a Social Worker of ‘ appearing to be under the influence of a mind-altering substance’. She clearly meant drugs but the poor girl had never taken drugs in her life. I can assure you also that a woman ,especially when aroused ,might act somewhat irrationally and be perfectly sober ; it often happens as a symptom of pre-natal stress on a monthly basis and for countless other reasons which might stress her out such as if a neighbour throws a stone through her window and just misses her baby. She is likely to rush out and raise Cain.
            It appalls me that you appear to so willingly accept the hearsay reports about Mum in this case and seem so quickly to have written her off as an addict and drunk without any real evidence. It really does and i would ask you to take a look again at the comments of the women just above on this thread and on others.Thousands complain about false allegations based on hearsay evidence alone and lots ( like Sam) have their children taken unlawfully when LA’s abuse the s20 agreements and effect a fait-accomplis illicitly.
            Your comment and i QUOTE: If the mother isn’t happy with that, she can argue why not: UNQUOTE is unreasonable. How can she argue her case in a Court when the judicial system is broken ; where hearsay evidence is not tested vigourously as it should be due to time restraints and when the Court along with her own lawyer sometimes turns a blind eye to LA malpractice and dishonesty.
            This criticism of the system is not aimed at you personally ,Sarah. I know how difficult it is to strike a balance but the truth and the children must come first. I haven’t got an answer from the Father yet but should it transpire that an emergency or an interim care order has been granted following a ‘fact-Finding ‘ lasting only 15 minutes ,without any real evidence, it would be very ,very concerning. Don’ t you agree?

          4. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            I am ‘happy’ to accept the reports about the mother being drunk because something happened to sufficiently worry other people that she wasn’t safe to be around the children. The authorities acted quickly – as they have to do sometimes – the children have spent a few days in foster care – not great but not the worst thing – and are now with their dad, as they should be. I honestly don’t think this sounds like the kind of case to expend your reforming zeal – and remember that the mother will have her own legal team if it is care proceedings. If she doesn’t abuse alcohol she will have the chance to prove it.

          5. Angelo Granda

            Thanks for your honesty,Sarah.At least you aren’t trying to keep up any pretences.
            ‘ No smoke without fire’ appears to be the general rule in the system and no genuine effort is made to exercise caution with hearsay evidence at all in truth,is there?
            What is more,it appears to matter little if every guideline and rule in the book is broken,I’m right,aren’t I?
            Readers, even if a mother is as drunk as a skunk ,her children are entitled to a fair and proportionate hearing so is she.
            Correct procedure to be followed and children not to be procured into care unlawfully.

          6. Sarah Phillimore Post author

            Of course she is. But given that it is unlikely that a full court can be convened in five minutes, her children must be kept safe in the meantime. Being pissed while parenting is a serious failure of parenting. Children have to be removed from situations of immediate danger – their right to be safe and alive, trumps the parents right to demand no removal until court hearing.

          7. Angelo Granda

            I repeat that if allegations of that kind are made against a Mum,the Police should carry out reasonable investigations,take blood tests and,when the fact is proven,protect the children by bringing the accused before a magistrate for proportionate action.
            In this case,they failed to make reasonable investigations ; they jumped the gun and removed the children unnecessarily as it turned out ,passed the buck to the LA and also failed to keep the case under review and return the children within 72 hours.
            The children will undoubtedly have suffered trauma as a consequence and laid open to great risk of institutional abuse and/or neglect,not ‘rescued’ from harm as you are saying.
            I understand the temptation to act ‘quickly’ and cast guidelines and safety procedures aside but you should remember they are in place to be followed scrupulously not flouted.Unfortunately cases are poisoned when they are ignored.From thereon forward,the perpetrators will be set on justifying themselves not making honest reports .
            Proportionate action must be taken following due process and a fine or probation order ,ASBO or something similar ordered by a Magistrate could have solved the problem at source,in my humble opinion.
            Too late now,the blood tests have to be taken within 8 hours,I think.

  16. Anonymous

    I am a girl child and suffering from human rights violations because my mother is a mental illness affected person because of my father’s violence he did in the earlier ages of marriages and now I have to suffer many act of violences been done by both my parents to me and later that gave my elder sister the right to take undue advantage of it also.

    Reply
  17. Angelo Granda

    You should contact CHILDLINE or someone else you can trust to act for you.
    Don’t suffer in silence,do it today.

    Reply
  18. Father wanting kids back

    When I went to court because everything had been agreed they said and there was no objections for them coming to me that it would be quick. Not sure how these types of hearings go but her barrister spoke the most out of any one about how she was remorseful etc etc and willing to co operate with everything. My barrister said a few quick words and that was literally it one women spoke at the start when we went in and that was it. No social spoke or no police there no evidence of what happen or had previously happened was spoke about the judge said she had read through the case beforehand. Nothing of any incidents was mention is this how these type of hearings go. If I’m right it was a interim care order a 26 week process order something like that. I was expecting all sides to speak in court but it never happened. I have a meeting with my lawyer on Monday as have not received any paper work from anyone as of yet. But briefly reading through the report case papers beforehand the police bit I read from them said she was extremely drunk fell over in front of them and was not co operating with them also and that the partner was there and also refused to disclose any information about what was going on. Was said the neighbor rang the police because of arguing and loud noises. All I do know is she was let out without any charge or anything. I have various meetings coming up and assessments with various organisations.

    Reply
  19. Father wanting kids back

    Trying to add as much as I can maybe the next hearing I go to will be more in depth as this was only the first court hearing. Matters are obviously on going and investigations from all parties Involved will be ongoing. Maybe it is a case of building up a bigger picture and the first hearing they obviously could not have built up enough of a picture as to why the court hearing was so quick I don’t know the about of work they are doing behind closed doors and the work they are continuing to do. It really does go down to balance here and striking that balance here from all parties as seem to be so many people involved from all the calls I have had from different people and people coming round to see me at my house. Weather there was any statement from the neighbor or anything i am yet to know and also i did say on arrival the police said it was very dirty and not liveable environment weather the police took any pictures of this of the house to suppprt there claims and the case I am yet to find that out also.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      You will be getting a copy of all reports and statements – anything that goes into the court bundle you will have. It is probably still very early days but things should get clearer in the next days and weeks. Court should have already given dates for parents to reply to LA evidence.

      Reply
  20. Father wanting kids back

    Sorry to keep adding to this but she has openly admitted to it and held her hands up from what her lawyer said on her behalf she never spoke in court and I never also. There was no doctor reports or mental health reports or anything along them lines. The practise all these people are following Im thinking weather to voice record things is this a practice that I could undertake as I feel it is a matter of my word against there’s and no proving anything without any evidence and I can bring my concerns up but without any proof from my side I don’t stand much chance if I was to bring them up and getting anywhere with them. In court there was only a few people in there the judge her lawyer my lawyer a court lady actually not sure who she was just guessing she was that spoke to the judge first a couple of social people and a guardian person think that’s what they are called and my mum and dad and that was it no other parties.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      All court hearings are already recorded. If you are worried that people are going against what was said in court, you can ask to listen to the recordings or get a transcript. I honestly don’t think you are going to do yourself any good by assuming corruption at the outset. Why not wait and see until something happens that you need to take further.

      Reply
      1. Father wanting kids back

        Yeah it’s still early days so taking it day by day will report back thanks for taking time to reply to me. It’s all up in the air the moment.

        Reply
  21. Angelo Granda

    Father wkb,
    I should stress also that no-one should assume corruption at all; but the judicial system is broken and that inevitably leads to injustice on occasion.
    Neither you or I are lawyers but from what you have written, it seems that the judge made the ICO out largely ( but not totally) on the strength of written forms and documentary evidence which she scanned over in private.
    If any of it is wrong,it’s rather late now to argue .The fact finding has now passed by and so be it.It is very,very difficult to argue about or reverse a fact finding as Sarah often says.
    Without any scientific evidence of forensic certitude,mum has now been judged as a habitual drunk unable to care for her children .That is how the CPR system works.
    It isn’t fair on the kids but it just is!
    Suggestion ,keep your head below the parapet ,entrench and concentrate on looking after the children as Mum has asked you to.
    She should choose her lawyer carefully.

    Reply
  22. Angelo Granda

    Father wkb,
    The last thing you should do,in my opinion, whether the hearing was fair or not,is say anything to suggest you doubt the findings or do not accept the validity of their ‘concerns’.Otherwise, they will begin to develop ‘concerns’ about you and your ability to keep the children safe.For example,just talking to your ex on the ‘phone can be interpreted as collaboration with her and put you down as an unfit parent.
    Follow your lawyer’s advice and only communicate with Mum by mediation.
    This resource does not usually advise on specific cases; it is a general discussion forum and ,naturally,advice will conflict.
    For proper advice on your case,you should go online to the FAMILY RIGHTS GROUP which can help you as an individual.
    Both you and Mum should try and get an independent advocate.

    Reply
  23. Angelo Grand a

    Sarah,if you have the time,please would you clear up a major legal technicality vital to a child’s human rights for us?
    I believe section 46 Children Act obliges the Police to accommodate children who they believe to be in imminent danger of significant danger .
    No mention of removing children from their mother without a court order and placing them into the care of another agency ( renowned as unfit for purpose) likewise without a court order or the permission of parents.
    Your observations please.If a house is burning down or is otherwise unfit for habitation,if a boat is sinking or a Mum sick,would it not be more humane to accommodate the Mum and children together? Also when allegations are unpro Ben?

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      The obligation on the police is to keep children in or remove children to a place of safety. Police have only prison cells. That is rarely appropriate so the police will involve social workers at the earliest opportunity. There are foster placements for children, very few for adults AND children. So I am afraid that it is highly unlikely the police will be able to secure safe accommodation for both a mother and her child, no matter how desirable that would be to an outsider. You cannot magic bricks and mortar out of thin air. People do the best they can with what they have got and continually criticising professionals – as you do – for not being able to make changes to the actual physical structures of inequality that have dominated our society for so long now, is grossly unfair.

      Reply
  24. Angelo Grand a

    Well,it depends whose side one is on,doesn’t it. I am on that of the children in such scenarios and others also will be concerned it is grossly wrong to traumatise them by removal from Mum in such a way at the same time placing them in great danger of institutional mistreatment.I guess the Law is written as it is for that reason too.
    Please don’t regard this comment as tit-for-tat unfair criticism,Sarah; I feel I am trying to be fair.
    It appears perverse to me for professionals to be so care-free about applying the letter of the law putting the convenience of themselves first.There are always hostels and guest houses available.
    Actually,in many cases I suspect any so- called danger to children is grossly exaggerated IF it exists at all.Often removal is planned in advance between the two agencies before they arrive on a scene and section 46 abused.
    In particular,dirty houses can easily be cleaned up and a genuine professional would help to do it were they more human.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      yes dirty houses can be cleaned and yes SW often do help with that. I have frequently had cases where the LA pays for a skip and a deep clean. And then a week later the house is full of clutter and dirt again. What would you do with the children of those parents who are simply unwilling or unable to give them a basic decent standard of living?

      Reply
  25. Angelo Granda

    I welcome constructive questions like that one at any time,Sarah,after all I ask you
    plenty.
    There are many questions and problems within the sphere of social work faced by professionals to which the solutions are not always immediately plain.
    The best course of action lies in following official guidelines and frameworks scrupulously every time not in hasty ,knee-jerk,over reaction directed by ones fears.

    E.g.If parents are unwilling,as you ask,the solution to your question lies in the working together frameworks.They should be supplied with experienced advocacy to work with them,bring them to their senses,explain their responsibilities to them,caution them and mediate with professionals on their behalf.
    If they are unable,then a good professional should recognise that ,again,working together is the best policy and it should be recognised that change does not happen instantly.Don’t demand miracles in a week,think longer term.A support worker should call every day to the home,roll up his or her sleeves,grasp the nettle and teach Mum by example until a clean house becomes second nature and a matter of pride to the family.This may take a month or two.

    Reply
    1. Sarah Phillimore Post author

      yes, but the problem is that children can’t sit around and wait for years. And for many parents, there is no change evidenced over many years, despite a plethora of help and intervention. So what do we do?

      Reply
  26. Angelo Granda

    Many professionals on here have already described effective solutions but is management more interested in its own illegitimate aims?

    Reply
  27. Angelo Granda

    You ask ‘so what do we do?’

    A Child-Protection system MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL unless there is an implicit belief that things are to be improved for children.
    Institutional disorder,unlawfulness,often violence and child sexual abuse, exploitation of any kind such as that by profiteers involved child care should not be tolerated. It is a long-term and evr-recurring reality for which we await a public apology from Theresa May’s government. It was promised in June after the latest revelations via a Public Enquiry the apology would be issued before the summer break but it is still not forthcoming in December.

    Things can and must be made better for children not worse for them and that is only possible if we improve their lives and reduce the risk with natural family.Taking them into care temporarily must be avoided if at all possible because of the trauma it causes them and imposing a ‘change of identity’ asking them to ‘change who they are’ i.e. adoption is potentially disastrous to their mental health and degrading.The risk of significant harm in care outweighs all but the most dire risks with natural parents.

    To return to the question ‘so what do we do if there is no change despite extensive help and intervention over years?’

    There is a simple answer ; it lies in asking questions of the system itself. Should any family-support programme offered and conducted over several months or years fail to have any success on the target parents or indeed if any activity that aims to influence the behaviour of others fails, we should accept that the person or institution wielding the influence must accept responsibility for the failures and consequences .The system must accept it and change its approach and possibly learn new ones.
    Many parents these days will present difficulties to reformers being very set in their ways over a long period and a lot of them seem more disposed towards paid employment outside the home than housework and cleaning for the children. These days schools hardly seem to teach domestic science and home economics as it is fashionable to educate everybody,both male and female for the wage-slave market. Men tend to devalue the importance and value of a woman’s work in the home placing more value on any income they can get out of them from paid employment .
    We should recognise that reform is still possible nevertheless with the right approach and it is not rocket science .There are effective methods such as the reward system but they aren’t often taken up and put into action.Occupational therapy, moral teaching, daily meditation possibly in the form of religious prayer and act of worship; all these are of known practical help to the wayward.

    Either the workers involved are badly-trained and don’t understand them or the LA involved has policies which prefer removal .Whichever the case, the LA is responsible for the failure not the parents .I think the second of the two is true. They prefer removal because it is easier for them.

    They are skilled in factitious assessments and story-telling and this is why there are more and more kids going into care.

    Reply
  28. Angelo Granda

    You ask ‘so what do we do?’

    A Child-Protection system MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL unless there is an implicit belief that things are to be improved for children.
    Institutional disorder,unlawfulness,often violence and child sexual abuse, exploitation of any kind such as that by profiteers involved child care should not be tolerated. It is a long-term and evr-recurring reality for which we await a public apology from Theresa May’s government. It was promised in June after the latest revelations via a Public Enquiry the apology would be issued before the summer break but it is still not forthcoming in December.

    Things can and must be made better for children not worse for them and that is only possible if we improve their lives and reduce the risk with natural family.Taking them into care temporarily must be avoided if at all possible because of the trauma it causes them and imposing a ‘change of identity’ asking them to ‘change who they are’ i.e. adoption is potentially disastrous to their mental health and degrading.The risk of significant harm in care outweighs all but the most dire risks with natural parents.

    To return to the question ‘so what do we do if there is no change despite extensive help and intervention over years?’

    There is a simple answer ; it lies in asking questions of the system itself. Should any family-support programme offered and conducted over several months or years fail to have any success on the target parents or indeed if any activity that aims to influence the behaviour of others fails, we should accept that the person or institution wielding the influence must accept responsibility for the failures and consequences .The system must accept it and change its approach and possibly learn new ones.
    Many parents these days will present difficulties to reformers being very set in their ways over a long period and a lot of them seem more disposed towards paid employment outside the home than housework and cleaning for the children. These days schools hardly seem to teach domestic science and home economics as it is fashionable to educate everybody,both male and female for the wage-slave market. Men tend to devalue the importance and value of a woman’s work in the home placing more value on any income they can get out of them from paid employment .
    We should recognise that reform is still possible nevertheless with the right approach and it is not rocket science .There are effective methods such as the reward system but they aren’t often taken up and put into action.Occupational therapy, moral teaching, daily meditation possibly in the form of religious prayer and act of worship; all these are of known practical help to the wayward.

    Either the workers involved are badly-trained and don’t understand them or the LA involved has policies which prefer removal .Whichever the case, the LA is responsible for the failure not the parents .I think the second of the two is true. They prefer removal because it is easier for them.

    They are skilled in factitious assessments and story-telling and this is why there are more and more kids going into care.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.